To all my neighbors in Bent Oak and our friends from all the other neighborhoods who were able and willing to come to the BMAP meeting today, a GIANT THANK YOU. I know it seemed as though we did not have a perfect fit with that group and the agenda, I can tell you that your presence at that meeting was very important. Also in the crowd was Mr. E. Roeder, who works directly under Gerald Briggs at the Department of Health. He no doubt has a lot to tell Mr. Briggs about the interest level in this community. I think the moderator was a little taken back by the number of people who showed up but in the informed questions that were coming her way. That would not happen unless there was an intense interest from all of you. Also in attendance at the meeting were John Byrd, Fred Brummer’s assistant, Ocoee Mayor Scott Vandergrift, and many others who are well known to both the Department of Health and the Department of Environmental Protection.
For me, one very important thing that came out of that meeting today. That is an understanding that in Tallahassee, the right hand does not communicate with the left hand. As a result, the citizens are a birdie in badminton game. There is little coordination or information sharing going on between all these entities who have authority to pass any number of rules that impact our lives. This may well become the focus of our attention, as both DOH and DEP have been given the authority by the legislature to study, make recommendations, and PASS RULES on nitrogen reduction. Since they are both looking at OSWTS (onsite waste water treatment systems), the question is, are they both going to pass rules affecting us? What I heard today, is that BMAP has representatives from counties and cities. If their project focus and recommended solution to nitrogen reduction is sewering, those county and city officials on BMAP may end up committing to that (especially if there is stimulus money involved), while the DOH is hitting us from the other side with an immediate mandate to install expensive PBTS.
The most important thing is that you made them sit up and take notice, and made them answer important questions.
Again, thank you.
Andrea
Thursday, April 16, 2009
Wednesday, April 15, 2009
Sluge report
Sludge Report: April 14, 2009
Update on Department of Health and your septic tank.
Welcome to the second edition of the SLUDGE REPORT, brought to you by your friendly
neighborhood coalition of Homeowner's Associations and friends whose common bond is
common sense and common cause. The cause is stopping the Department of Health from
making a rule mandating that all septic systems in the Wekiva Study Area be replaced with
electrically operated Performance Based Treatment Systems (PBTS). DOH states the purpose of
the rule is to reduce nitrogen levels in the Wekiva Study Area - which encompasses 250+ square
miles of land beginning in the north from an eastern point in Seminole County (west of Interstate
4), across (west) to portions of Lake County, then stretching south to Ocoee and Winter Garden
pulling in all Orange County communities directly below the northernmost points. (we can send
you a map if you are unsure about whether or not you are affected).
An Open Letter to Legislators:
Please put aside statistics, justifications, and agenda's for a moment. This is about the overwhelming
human toll of the PBTS mandate. This is about real people, average people, people on the receiving end.
This is what I learned as a result of our neighborhood petition drive organized to oppose the DOH rule about
Performance Based Treatment Systems. 99.9% of the 260 homes contacted in our neighborhood signed
the petition. Beyond logic, statistics, justifications, and agendas, this is what I learned.
I knocked on a door where it seemed no one was home it was so dark inside. The elderly gentleman who
eventually answered the door listened to information about costs and the impact selling his home would
have. His eyes closed and his head sagged to rest on the door jam. He signed and quietly thanked me for
trying to help.
Make no mistake, with the costs of this rule, the elderly in this county on a fixed income will have to make
choices between needed dental work, medical co-pays and paying for their PBTS maintenance costs. What
savings are left after the economy decimated their nest eggs - savings set aside for hurricane deductibles,
replacing a roof, or long term health needs will be gobbled up by the installation costs.
A mom with four children looked at me in total disbelief, then asked me if I could help her choose which one
will not go to college. The monthly maintenance costs will make it impossible for her to continue making
payments on pre-paid college plans.
A very young mom with babies said, "There is no way we can come up with that kind of money to install
one." All their savings went into buying the home, their equity line has been cancelled, and she knows there
is not a bank anywhere that will help with the financing.
And, that's only three neighbors. There were more, but these stories tell enough. What do I see as future
consequences across the county? I see homes and whole neighborhoods falling into a state of disrepair. I
see code violations, fines and liens against homeowners who have not the means to comply and outright
fraud potential as citizens avoid normal permitting laws to have septic repairs done. I see more
foreclosures, upside down equity, and abandoned properties.
Going door-to door, I saw the pain and confusion and anger in peoples' eyes as they instantly understood
the economic horror this will cause in their lives and the injustice of it all. I am publishing this because I
promised them I would tell their stories, and I can't forget their eyes.
In a moment of discouragement, one neighbor said, "All we are is homeowners. We have no lobbyist." I
told him, "You are wrong. We have legislators. They are our lobbyists." I would urge every legislator to
hear the reality of the DOH rule and step up to be the peoples' voice. We need you to speak for us and stop
this rule. It doesn't mean we abandon the dream of clean rivers, it simply means we find a way that saves
both the river AND the residents.
Signed: A concerned resident of the Wekiva Study Area
Update on Department of Health and your septic tank.
Welcome to the second edition of the SLUDGE REPORT, brought to you by your friendly
neighborhood coalition of Homeowner's Associations and friends whose common bond is
common sense and common cause. The cause is stopping the Department of Health from
making a rule mandating that all septic systems in the Wekiva Study Area be replaced with
electrically operated Performance Based Treatment Systems (PBTS). DOH states the purpose of
the rule is to reduce nitrogen levels in the Wekiva Study Area - which encompasses 250+ square
miles of land beginning in the north from an eastern point in Seminole County (west of Interstate
4), across (west) to portions of Lake County, then stretching south to Ocoee and Winter Garden
pulling in all Orange County communities directly below the northernmost points. (we can send
you a map if you are unsure about whether or not you are affected).
An Open Letter to Legislators:
Please put aside statistics, justifications, and agenda's for a moment. This is about the overwhelming
human toll of the PBTS mandate. This is about real people, average people, people on the receiving end.
This is what I learned as a result of our neighborhood petition drive organized to oppose the DOH rule about
Performance Based Treatment Systems. 99.9% of the 260 homes contacted in our neighborhood signed
the petition. Beyond logic, statistics, justifications, and agendas, this is what I learned.
I knocked on a door where it seemed no one was home it was so dark inside. The elderly gentleman who
eventually answered the door listened to information about costs and the impact selling his home would
have. His eyes closed and his head sagged to rest on the door jam. He signed and quietly thanked me for
trying to help.
Make no mistake, with the costs of this rule, the elderly in this county on a fixed income will have to make
choices between needed dental work, medical co-pays and paying for their PBTS maintenance costs. What
savings are left after the economy decimated their nest eggs - savings set aside for hurricane deductibles,
replacing a roof, or long term health needs will be gobbled up by the installation costs.
A mom with four children looked at me in total disbelief, then asked me if I could help her choose which one
will not go to college. The monthly maintenance costs will make it impossible for her to continue making
payments on pre-paid college plans.
A very young mom with babies said, "There is no way we can come up with that kind of money to install
one." All their savings went into buying the home, their equity line has been cancelled, and she knows there
is not a bank anywhere that will help with the financing.
And, that's only three neighbors. There were more, but these stories tell enough. What do I see as future
consequences across the county? I see homes and whole neighborhoods falling into a state of disrepair. I
see code violations, fines and liens against homeowners who have not the means to comply and outright
fraud potential as citizens avoid normal permitting laws to have septic repairs done. I see more
foreclosures, upside down equity, and abandoned properties.
Going door-to door, I saw the pain and confusion and anger in peoples' eyes as they instantly understood
the economic horror this will cause in their lives and the injustice of it all. I am publishing this because I
promised them I would tell their stories, and I can't forget their eyes.
In a moment of discouragement, one neighbor said, "All we are is homeowners. We have no lobbyist." I
told him, "You are wrong. We have legislators. They are our lobbyists." I would urge every legislator to
hear the reality of the DOH rule and step up to be the peoples' voice. We need you to speak for us and stop
this rule. It doesn't mean we abandon the dream of clean rivers, it simply means we find a way that saves
both the river AND the residents.
Signed: A concerned resident of the Wekiva Study Area
Saturday, April 11, 2009
Meeting Location Change
This is a big entry, please forgive me.... Dave
Please note: MEETING LOCATION – is NOT at the Fran Carlton Center. Correct Location is APOPKA VFW HALL. See corrected meeting notice below!!!
Your presence is needed and greatly encouraged!
As you can see there has been a bit of a go-round about the April 15 meeting we announced last week. It’s still a GO, but location has changed. You may read through the long e-mail thread if you want to know the details. I hope you will read it. Of particular interest is the reasoning behind the selection of the “friends” of the Wekiva River who have a seat on the BMAP panel. Mr. Everson, a noted expert on on-site systems was cordially excused as he is not a Friend.
See you there. Andrea
MEETING ALERT!
We need as many people as possible to attend the April 15 meeting of the Wekiva Basin Management Action Plan (BMAP)Group, in our efforts to keep the Department of Health from forcing the new septic systems on Central Florida homeowners. Some of BMAP's findings are listed below. As you can see, those findings are favorable to affected homeowners and run counter to DOH claims.
From Wekiva Basin Management Action Plan (BMAP) Reports
· Nitrogen levels in the Wekiva Springshed are actually falling, in spite of the fact that the number of septic tanks installed has dramatically increased since 1996.
· BMAP reports also state that the “relative magnitude of sources is still under question, and existing nitrogen isotope results are not entirely clear.” (Meaning that no one has proven that current septic systems are to blame for the Wekiva's problems.)
· Their recommendations say it is advisable to “continue to examine sources," v. demanding that homeowners without sewer connections be singled out for blame.
We have a LOCAL OPPORTUNITY to let our voices be heard! When residents/voters take the time to show up, it has a huge IMPACT, and legislators do take note. Please mark your calendar, and be there/send others.
APRIL 15, 1:30 P.M.
APOPKA VFW HALL,
519 S. Central Ave.
(St. Rt. 441, turn left one block west of Park Ave.)
PLEASE try to BE THERE!
From: Gihring, Jennifer [mailto:Jennifer.Gihring@dep.state.fl.us]
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 3:03 PM
To: John.Byrd@ocfl.net
Subject: RE: Public Comment @ Wekiva Basin Working Group Meetings & FAW Notice (www.flrules.org)
Mr. Byrd,
4/15 Meeting Notification:
The City of Apopka has graciously made arrangements for us to return to the VFW Hall for Wednesday's meeting. A notification of such will be sent to the Wekiva BMAP email distribution list shortly. Thus, the original FAW notice is valid (Notice ID 7003126), and Wednesday’s meeting will be held at 1:30 at the VFW/Community Center in Apopka (519 S Central Ave).
Meeting Structure and Open Discussion Time:
Think of a City/County Commission meeting – all interested parties are welcome to attend and listen to the items being discussed by the Commission, but attendees are not able to ask questions during the meeting as they come to mind. An opportunity for open public comments is provided during a specific time on the agenda. This is analogous to the BWG operating structure that will be used for the Wekiva BMAP. Regarding broader public participation, consistent with the Florida Watershed Restoration Act (F.S. 403.067) and the BMAP program’s commitment to participation and transparency, we will be holding general public meetings at several points during the BMAP process. These public meetings will be more informal to support free-flow discussion among all attendees. Those meetings will be noticed and held as we make progress on key BMAP topics. We will look to the BWG members for guidance in determining when sufficient progress has been made to support an information-rich public meeting. We have had great success with this approach in other BMAPs in support of the Department’s desire for effective public participation and the public’s desire for the same.
Additional Sunshine Law Information:
The FL Atty. General website is an excellent resource for information about the Sunshine Law. Specifically, half-way down this webpage (http://www.myflsunshine.com/sun.nsf/pages/Municipal), you will see a link entitled “Requirements for Public Meetings.” The attached file (summary of Sunshine Law public meeting requirements) is from that link. I encourage you to review this document, as it describes several key points of the Sunshine Law in detail. The Sunshine Law text itself and related information can also be found on the rest of this website. If you have further questions, I would be happy to put you or any other Orange County staff in touch with someone at DEP who can provide additional details.
See you on Wednesday,
Jennifer
Please note: MEETING LOCATION – is NOT at the Fran Carlton Center. Correct Location is APOPKA VFW HALL. See corrected meeting notice below!!!
Your presence is needed and greatly encouraged!
As you can see there has been a bit of a go-round about the April 15 meeting we announced last week. It’s still a GO, but location has changed. You may read through the long e-mail thread if you want to know the details. I hope you will read it. Of particular interest is the reasoning behind the selection of the “friends” of the Wekiva River who have a seat on the BMAP panel. Mr. Everson, a noted expert on on-site systems was cordially excused as he is not a Friend.
See you there. Andrea
MEETING ALERT!
We need as many people as possible to attend the April 15 meeting of the Wekiva Basin Management Action Plan (BMAP)Group, in our efforts to keep the Department of Health from forcing the new septic systems on Central Florida homeowners. Some of BMAP's findings are listed below. As you can see, those findings are favorable to affected homeowners and run counter to DOH claims.
From Wekiva Basin Management Action Plan (BMAP) Reports
· Nitrogen levels in the Wekiva Springshed are actually falling, in spite of the fact that the number of septic tanks installed has dramatically increased since 1996.
· BMAP reports also state that the “relative magnitude of sources is still under question, and existing nitrogen isotope results are not entirely clear.” (Meaning that no one has proven that current septic systems are to blame for the Wekiva's problems.)
· Their recommendations say it is advisable to “continue to examine sources," v. demanding that homeowners without sewer connections be singled out for blame.
We have a LOCAL OPPORTUNITY to let our voices be heard! When residents/voters take the time to show up, it has a huge IMPACT, and legislators do take note. Please mark your calendar, and be there/send others.
APRIL 15, 1:30 P.M.
APOPKA VFW HALL,
519 S. Central Ave.
(St. Rt. 441, turn left one block west of Park Ave.)
PLEASE try to BE THERE!
From: Gihring, Jennifer [mailto:Jennifer.Gihring@dep.state.fl.us]
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 3:03 PM
To: John.Byrd@ocfl.net
Subject: RE: Public Comment @ Wekiva Basin Working Group Meetings & FAW Notice (www.flrules.org)
Mr. Byrd,
4/15 Meeting Notification:
The City of Apopka has graciously made arrangements for us to return to the VFW Hall for Wednesday's meeting. A notification of such will be sent to the Wekiva BMAP email distribution list shortly. Thus, the original FAW notice is valid (Notice ID 7003126), and Wednesday’s meeting will be held at 1:30 at the VFW/Community Center in Apopka (519 S Central Ave).
Meeting Structure and Open Discussion Time:
Think of a City/County Commission meeting – all interested parties are welcome to attend and listen to the items being discussed by the Commission, but attendees are not able to ask questions during the meeting as they come to mind. An opportunity for open public comments is provided during a specific time on the agenda. This is analogous to the BWG operating structure that will be used for the Wekiva BMAP. Regarding broader public participation, consistent with the Florida Watershed Restoration Act (F.S. 403.067) and the BMAP program’s commitment to participation and transparency, we will be holding general public meetings at several points during the BMAP process. These public meetings will be more informal to support free-flow discussion among all attendees. Those meetings will be noticed and held as we make progress on key BMAP topics. We will look to the BWG members for guidance in determining when sufficient progress has been made to support an information-rich public meeting. We have had great success with this approach in other BMAPs in support of the Department’s desire for effective public participation and the public’s desire for the same.
Additional Sunshine Law Information:
The FL Atty. General website is an excellent resource for information about the Sunshine Law. Specifically, half-way down this webpage (http://www.myflsunshine.com/sun.nsf/pages/Municipal), you will see a link entitled “Requirements for Public Meetings.” The attached file (summary of Sunshine Law public meeting requirements) is from that link. I encourage you to review this document, as it describes several key points of the Sunshine Law in detail. The Sunshine Law text itself and related information can also be found on the rest of this website. If you have further questions, I would be happy to put you or any other Orange County staff in touch with someone at DEP who can provide additional details.
See you on Wednesday,
Jennifer
Friday, April 10, 2009
From Andrea, on the Septic Tanks
Andrea, thank you for keeping us posted on this!!! Dave
Welcome to politics 101. Thanks to John Byrd for staying on top of the situation. I will pass updates as we know more. In the meantime, I urge you to clear your calendar to attend this meeting. John notes that there are elected representatives on this commission….however, if the elected representatives are not representing you, they need to be reminded what their role is and who they are accountable to. Their role is not that of a parent who tells you when you may speak and what you may respond to. Note that environmentalists are in this group, but no homeowners or businesses.
If the meeting date or time is changed, I will let you know.
Andrea
From: Byrd, John
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:21 AM
To: 'Gihring, Jennifer'
9 April 2009
Ms. Gihring:
Upon review of the attached agenda for next Wednesday’s Wekiva BMAP Working Group meeting I must confess I do not understand why public comment is only allowed prior to the beginning of the actual substance of the meeting.
In the Lake Jessup BMAP process public comment was allowed through-out the entire meetings and I believe that has been a positive experience for all concerned. By allowing public comment during the meeting ideas & suggestions are permitted to flow and questions are answered by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection (FDEP) that assist everyone in understanding how FDEP intends to determine the required financial commitment of local governments and individual homeowners and businesses. Why change the process for this BMAP?
I know that there are representatives of local government who are members of the Wekiva Basin Working Group but there are zero representatives of homeowners associations or businesses that are members of the Wekiva Basin Working Group as was suggested even though environmental groups are represented on this panel.
Why not allow a free flow of information at these meetings? Please re-consider this otherwise I fear this process will be fundamentally flawed from the beginning.
Additionally, since the location of the meeting has been changed from the original published Florida Administrative Weekly notice is this still a legally permissible meeting on 15 April 2009? I have copied the Orange County Attorney’s Office as well concerning these matters.
Sincerely,
John Byrd
Welcome to politics 101. Thanks to John Byrd for staying on top of the situation. I will pass updates as we know more. In the meantime, I urge you to clear your calendar to attend this meeting. John notes that there are elected representatives on this commission….however, if the elected representatives are not representing you, they need to be reminded what their role is and who they are accountable to. Their role is not that of a parent who tells you when you may speak and what you may respond to. Note that environmentalists are in this group, but no homeowners or businesses.
If the meeting date or time is changed, I will let you know.
Andrea
From: Byrd, John
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:21 AM
To: 'Gihring, Jennifer'
9 April 2009
Ms. Gihring:
Upon review of the attached agenda for next Wednesday’s Wekiva BMAP Working Group meeting I must confess I do not understand why public comment is only allowed prior to the beginning of the actual substance of the meeting.
In the Lake Jessup BMAP process public comment was allowed through-out the entire meetings and I believe that has been a positive experience for all concerned. By allowing public comment during the meeting ideas & suggestions are permitted to flow and questions are answered by the Florida Department of Environmental Protection (FDEP) that assist everyone in understanding how FDEP intends to determine the required financial commitment of local governments and individual homeowners and businesses. Why change the process for this BMAP?
I know that there are representatives of local government who are members of the Wekiva Basin Working Group but there are zero representatives of homeowners associations or businesses that are members of the Wekiva Basin Working Group as was suggested even though environmental groups are represented on this panel.
Why not allow a free flow of information at these meetings? Please re-consider this otherwise I fear this process will be fundamentally flawed from the beginning.
Additionally, since the location of the meeting has been changed from the original published Florida Administrative Weekly notice is this still a legally permissible meeting on 15 April 2009? I have copied the Orange County Attorney’s Office as well concerning these matters.
Sincerely,
John Byrd
Wednesday, April 8, 2009
STILL NEED YOUR HELP ON SEPTIC TANKS
Here is some info on the septic tanks, two different letters..... Dave
To all our HOA’s, e-mail friends and neighbors:
Please pass along an important message that reached me from a very involved Orange County resident. The original e-mail has been cropped to afford privacy to the sender/receiver. The body of the message is extremely important and should be responded to. Please e-mail or call Senator Gardiner (gardiner.andy.web@flsenate.gov) and Senator Baker (baker.carey.web@flsenate.gov) urging them to support our opposition to the DOH Rule and ask them to sponsor legislation to stop the rule from being implemented. Phone numbers are listed below. I attended this meeting in Tallahassee and can verify that this information on what transpired between the DOH and the House Representatives is accurate. If you feel so moved, you can send an e-mail to Senator Constantine (Constantine.lee.web@flsenate.gov) or phone him as well expressing your firm opposition to his unconscionable power plays in the Senate and House of Representatives. Contact me via e-mail if you have any questions.
I am told over and over by legislators that these contacts from you mean everything, and overwhelming contact can turn the tide. Thanks for your immediate action on this.
Andrea
Dear ********,
Monday evening we had a neighborhood meeting and Mr. Brummer spoke to us. Here is the latest he could give us on the Septic thing. He attended several meetings last week, and on Friday he was at one with the DOH, EPA and some legislators. It boils down to the DOH stated that “the ONLY THING that would keep them from implementing the proposed rule was for the Florida Legislature to pass legislation to stop them.”
So now, because time is of the essence, we are trying to get everyone we know to call Senator Gardner and ask him to support legislation to STOP the DOH from implementing the Proposed Rule for the Wekiva Study Area. The house isn’t the problem, he said, and Senator Gardner is on our side but he needs our calls because Senator Constantine is such strong influence and a “bully” that Gardner needs to know he has our support. Senator Baker (Lake County) is on the side of the DOH, so we should call him also and ask him to do the same thing, hoping we might change his mind if he gets enough calls.
Senator Gardner’s # (407) 428-5800 Senator Baker’s # (352) 742-6490
With the legislature session ending May 1, we don’t have much time. Hope you can help
To all our HOA’s, e-mail friends and neighbors:
Please pass along an important message that reached me from a very involved Orange County resident. The original e-mail has been cropped to afford privacy to the sender/receiver. The body of the message is extremely important and should be responded to. Please e-mail or call Senator Gardiner (gardiner.andy.web@flsenate.gov) and Senator Baker (baker.carey.web@flsenate.gov) urging them to support our opposition to the DOH Rule and ask them to sponsor legislation to stop the rule from being implemented. Phone numbers are listed below. I attended this meeting in Tallahassee and can verify that this information on what transpired between the DOH and the House Representatives is accurate. If you feel so moved, you can send an e-mail to Senator Constantine (Constantine.lee.web@flsenate.gov) or phone him as well expressing your firm opposition to his unconscionable power plays in the Senate and House of Representatives. Contact me via e-mail if you have any questions.
I am told over and over by legislators that these contacts from you mean everything, and overwhelming contact can turn the tide. Thanks for your immediate action on this.
Andrea
Dear ********,
Monday evening we had a neighborhood meeting and Mr. Brummer spoke to us. Here is the latest he could give us on the Septic thing. He attended several meetings last week, and on Friday he was at one with the DOH, EPA and some legislators. It boils down to the DOH stated that “the ONLY THING that would keep them from implementing the proposed rule was for the Florida Legislature to pass legislation to stop them.”
So now, because time is of the essence, we are trying to get everyone we know to call Senator Gardner and ask him to support legislation to STOP the DOH from implementing the Proposed Rule for the Wekiva Study Area. The house isn’t the problem, he said, and Senator Gardner is on our side but he needs our calls because Senator Constantine is such strong influence and a “bully” that Gardner needs to know he has our support. Senator Baker (Lake County) is on the side of the DOH, so we should call him also and ask him to do the same thing, hoping we might change his mind if he gets enough calls.
Senator Gardner’s # (407) 428-5800 Senator Baker’s # (352) 742-6490
With the legislature session ending May 1, we don’t have much time. Hope you can help
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